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Koni STR.T shock and strut discussion.....

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#21
This all leads to an issue I'm experiencing, and I'm not sure if any of you are, or might.

When the strut is assembled and the top night tightened, as long as the spring compressors are on, the bearing and mount turn well, with the shaft rotating along with the mount. Ease off the compressors, though, and the bearing/mount acts like it seizes up and doesn't turn. You can get some movement by just breaking loose the top nut, but that's obviously not how it's supposed to be assembled.

Discussing it with others online, the two main theories are that the new OEM bearings are out of spec and the spring seat region of the lower part of the bearing are deflecting or distorting under the spring load against the top half of the bearing. This has happened with both bearings and both mounts in any combination. I ordered in a set of KYB bearings/mounts that I'll try to get assembled this weekend to rule that in or out.

The other theory is the spring pressure is pressing upwards with enough force that the piston is pushing against the top of the shock body enough that the force/friction is keeping the shaft from turning. Breaking the top nut loose lets the mount/bearing rotate again because it's not being detained by the top nut. Putting the car on the ground should unload the piston and the bearing/mount and it should be fine. Theoretically.

Any experience or ideas? Thanks.
 
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Thread Starter #22
Hi Don. Welcome to the "other" forum! I am also struggling to get a few bits and pieces.
Don't throw away any useable shock or strut ancillary parts! This is becoming a replay of what I went through in late 2010 to get a decent suspension on my then new Fiesta!
I agree with you regarding the front bellows. The O.E. are the best version. 20210416_191112.jpg
 
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Thread Starter #23
The upper bearing issue has been breakage for me. The first two bearings came out in multiple chunks. I don't recall ever having any issue with the bearing locking up on assembled struts. I was able to rotate the upper strut mount when installing the struts.
I was using Ford service parts.
I have replaced close to 10 upper strut bearings in the past ten years. I initially blamed the Michigan roads.
 
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#24
That's really weird that you're having breakage like that. What kind of symptoms were you seeing from them breaking? That might explain the noise and clunk/rattles I've been hearing.

The locking up is making me a little crazy. I'm reluctant to put it together, put it on the ground, and have something go wrong and have to take everything apart again. I have the KYB bearings and mounts, so I'll build one up using that and see how it goes. When you mentioned you were able to rotate the mount, was that with the Konis, or an OEM strut?
 
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Thread Starter #25
The sign of a broken upper bearing is crunching, popping and binding noise when you turn the steering wheel. Its most noticeable in low or no speed situations.
 
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Thread Starter #26
I saw it most of the time with Ford struts both FRP and O.E. but, to be fair, there was no other than the Ford stuff prior to mid 2013( if i recall the timelines right)
 
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Thread Starter #27
The first set of single adjustable Koni Sport dampers was made from the FR3 kit i hounded Koni into taking from me to develop that product for us. Personally, i felt that the lack of good dampers for the Mk7 Fiesta was almost a criminal act.
I also sent them a front strut and rear shock from the ST a few years later. I had no involvement with the ST version beyond gifting them some parts for evaluation and development.
I like my Koni products!
 
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#28
I've been a fan as well. I've had Konis on all my VW GTIs with very good luck and performance with them all. That's why I'm a little concerned over how these struts and mount assemblies become resistant to turning under spring load. I realized that I've been working with just the left strut. I'll build up the right and see if that behaves the same or not.
 

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#29
I'll add my 2 cents in here...may or may not help...

Been working on "lifting" (ok you can skip over the rest if needed for those "low-riders")

Came across a similar problem and the fix? Well, I have yet to come across a viable one that most would accept.

My carborundrum - was dealing in once lifted, the shift in Camber....
FordFiestaSideViewCamber.png

It's how I came to be introduced to the bearing cup and it's two piece unit.

My "quick fix" was to simply add more grease to the LIP or edge of the cup in the bearing race - the small amount that leaks out during the compression - then allows the surface of the two halves of the bearing to slide across each other - can't always provide more clearance, so this was my workaournd as the grease will work thru those gaps to fill in and allow the grease to fill areas that would otherwise groan/creak/grind from the weight. Don't need to apply this to the spring (external) side, just the bearing cup race and let those beans inside - let them "float" in it.

Another aspect (literally) was from the change of height and how camber shifted - so I even used Flat stock steel to "brace" the Strut mounts "puck" and keep it forced down into the cup that the strut holds this polyurethane mess in. I had several failures from strut mounts from the bottoming out of the system in Urban potholes (not all streets are paved in gold in the rust belt) which left behind hockey pucks bolted to the shock arm.

All This was learned after I decided to "raise" the front end (as a need for trailer hauling as part of this experience) - but was initially discovered after a typical Midwest winter, having hit several potholes, you'll hear a noise and find that the strut mounts' bushing pops out.

  • A knock or two later, looking under the hood then only in - finding them floating above the struts' cup within the gap between the tower and the strut which is supposed to be the upper limit in the tower. Another ruined strut mount.

So my thoughts on this are keep an eye on the caster/camber changes as you lift or settle the ride height.

I bought enough of these strut mounts to form a stackable disc... See it here... or supply training pucks for the local Little League Hockey association.

Due to the length of the strut and the shock arm combined, that degree of change can apply considerable levels of torque at the longer ends - so a simple half, one to two degree of camber shift in rise height lift or settle - makes the aspect the bearing cup and the torque it must bear - in some instances - unbearable. A minor shift in the Center of Gravity can cause the shock arm to deform. IT can cause a level of discomfort the strut will let you hear.
 
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#30
So I built up the right side strut yesterday evening with the KYB bearing and mount. It's just barely improved over the left side with the OEM parts, but still very reluctant to turn with the spring loading the bearing assembly against the strut shaft/piston assembly. When apart, you can feel a mild viscous-like drag in the rotation, smooth, and there's some grease oozed from between the bearing halves, so I know there aren't dry parts wearing badly.

I'm going to give Koni's tech service a ring later and see if they have any input or if they think I'm going to destroy the strut with flaky bearings. It still seems to me that once the car is on the ground and the piston is floating in the shock body as designed, it shouldn't be a problem. This is just a very strange situation.
 
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Thread Starter #31
This is an interesting quandary. Being a fairly modest diameter of about four and one eighth inches diameter. Couldn't one just visit an industrial materials supply store and buy some nylon in the required diameter and mill a simple Spacer? It would need to have the reliefs for the top bracket # 3A197. Maybe require some sort of extension on the threaded end of the shock piston? IDK I am riffing. Never tried to increase ride height!
An interesting thing about the O.E. upper strut bearings! I just picked up a couple of new bearings from a dealership parts department. When i compared the new one to an unused new one from just a few years ago, i found a couple of changes. First change is the new one is a little bit "sloppier" when i rotate the upper part of the bearing. The second change is they have increased the amount of material and added four "ribs" on the outside edge of the smallest flange. I hope that the altered spec parts will last.
My pen pointing to the reliefs in the bearing obscure the view of the Motorcraft part number for the bearing. It is AD-1133. The Ford service part number is 8V5Z-18198-B. I have zero expectations of any further revised parts from Ford. 20210419_154633.jpg 20210419_160157.jpg
 
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#32
Pretty much what I have run into as well.

The nylon makes sense - but found the steel 3/16th X 3.5in up to 4 in W provides the surface and thickness to hold up to road abuse.

And I also use a 3/8's diameter hole drilled to allow the plate to rest on top of the puck using one or two of the studs to keep it to the center helps - a simple 8mm nut to act as a space for the "far unused" stud will help seat the plate and keep the strut flush and flat to the tower. IT can also provide (this spare nut) can use a washer to help with Camber "rise". The best position of the Nut is to the outer wall - using the outer wall, firewall (rear of engine compartment to the outside) hole to hold the nut, and or spacer as needed to help with Camber - Caster? You can use a "star washer" on top of the plates' thru hole for that outer wall stud that goes to the front of the engine compartment. Using the washers in combination can help restore Camber and Caster together you only need one washer on each hole and even a fiber washer can provide some tweak room (crush resistance)

Those "indentations" are important - as per the stud or rework of the mount in mine - they can easily fit a bolt head.

If you hear the rolling creaking sound, that may mean the studs of the mount has moved off these indentations and now presses onto the ribbing of the upper bearing housing under the mount - the plastic of the cup is bearing this weight - it has deformed the plastic seat and you're hearing the effects.

So a note to those inclined to try and reuse these - the stud bolt can be removed and a regular Grade 8 (or higher) of 8MM bolt can be put in place of it. They will fit, and in a way, helps you to "Center seat" the strut mount to the center of the shock rod of the strut - letting the nut seat the rod fully into the cup of the strut mount.

I have found that the struts "puck" and the strut tower on the vehicle - some considerable space - in height - is left between the two even on stock OEM. So if you encounter "clunking" noises especially after a hard bump or recently started to "notice" the rattle/klunk - check the hole (see thru) of that sides strut and tower - peer in and rock the vehicle or try and bounce the wheel - look for the puck seeming to float in the hole, the puck should still be attached to the rod of the shock - this is the source of that noise.
 
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#33
Andy is dead-on regarding the indentations. For those that aren't sure what we're referring to:



For the sake of comparison, here's the OEM top set and the KYB top set side-by-side. Ford OEM with the silver mount plate is on the left. KYB with the black mount plate on the right.





You can see the small additional ribs around the bottom circumference that scotman is referring to.



I took another shot at a slightly different angle to better show the vertical ribs on the inside diameter of the OEM bearing. I don't know what degree of structural benefit it offers, but it does center the mount more accurately. The KYB has noticeably more lateral play when you move the mount across the top of the bearing.



Let me know if there are any measurements or further photos that might help move this thread along.
 
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#34
Scotman, are you building up a set of struts in the near future? I'd be interested to see if you experience the same behavior with the top mount/bearing that I'm seeing.
 
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#35
I have found that the struts "puck" and the strut tower on the vehicle - some considerable space - in height - is left between the two even on stock OEM. So if you encounter "clunking" noises especially after a hard bump or recently started to "notice" the rattle/klunk - check the hole (see thru) of that sides strut and tower - peer in and rock the vehicle or try and bounce the wheel - look for the puck seeming to float in the hole, the puck should still be attached to the rod of the shock - this is the source of that noise.
Andy, can you please describe this puck and hole further? I'm trying to place it and my noggin isn't firing on all four today. I've had a rattle/clunk for a long time now, and after two shops shrugged their shoulders, I chalked it up to cheap, worn OEM struts. At 96K miles now, new dampers are certainly not going to go to waste, but it makes me wonder if this is the source of some front end noise that I've had for a long time.
 
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#36
All This was learned after I decided to "raise" the front end (as a need for trailer hauling as part of this experience).
I'm trying to figure out why you would want to raise the front for towing? With a truck you have the rear higher than the front, this keeps from unloading the front suspension and taking too much weight off of the front wheels.

This is why FWD pickups can't do much... a trailer easily unloads the drive wheels. You seem to want to exacerbate the situation.
 

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#37
Well, I'd have to take the car apart to do this...

Hmmm...can you settle for say, a picture of the puck? The Strut mount itself is in the car now currently acting as a spacer - I'm working on some ideas to reuse the old strut mounts that lose their pucks...It's a sad story but I hope to find a happy ending to this - someday...

Green arrow points to Puck number - both being the same - but Green identifies the mounted one.

1618874317372.png
1618874411038.png
1618874715646.png
1618874794052.png
No, seriously - I did say that - yes...

There's not much to these bushings - the polyurethane and rubber - but the polyurethane seats to the mounts metal base - there is no adhesive - as you can see by the one on the left - simply popped out...

The mounted one, refers to the link (earlier) to the "ST" one - these bushings - that number simply is the bushing...

The empty cup, the thing (puck) is held in, is being used on one side at this time for a durability / survivability test and as a spacer - look at the raw pics of the puck itself and the cup / puck assembled is the best I can do at the moment.

The way I even found this out was by shining a light into the strut tower hole and bouncing the car - it is then I noticed the post of the rod and the nut - and the puck all together moved as one unit when the car was bounced.

When you lift the wheel up to remove the tire to get at the strut, the spring tends to want to reseat the puck - but it can be easily "bounced" loose again by "bouncing" the strut / spring assembly - you can then see how that puck moves with the rod.

Loosen and remove the nut, the puck easily pops out with little effort - for the spring doesn't have enough tension to reseat it - once popped loose - the puck just rattles and bounces - in some road potholes, that rattle can be a bit upsetting to hear it hit the top of the inside of that tower.
 

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#38
I'm trying to figure out why you would want to raise the front for towing? With a truck you have the rear higher than the front, this keeps from unloading the front suspension and taking too much weight off of the front wheels.

This is why FWD pickups can't do much... a trailer easily unloads the drive wheels. You seem to want to exacerbate the situation.
Oh, it was to level the vehicle - I used a stiffer spring in the back, which raised the rear wheels (another thread here to show that) - so to fix the level for the front and to save the nose from "road rage rash" (nosediving) - Hey, I gotta get groceries with the thing - so got tired of the audible "Thwack - S-S-C-KK-RR-a-a-p-p-e" and the looks I'd get while leaving the parking lots. I had to "lift" the front end - which then allows for me that clearance to drive this in typical winters in the Indiana Michigan Illinois region (Snow belt)

Jumping curbs? Heh, [?|] hardly - you don't see corvettes entering and exiting your local Grocery as you'd see with a typical SUV (and for some - they too have clearance issues)- at least not without a S-L-O-O-O-W re-entry back onto the pavement...Same can be said for vehicles like the Fiesta...
 
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Thread Starter #39
Scotman, are you building up a set of struts in the near future? I'd be interested to see if you experience the same behavior with the top mount/bearing that I'm seeing.
Yes. Right now i am preparing to put the STR.T Koni dampers on my 2011 and also putting the Bilstein B6 dampers on a 2011 Fiesta project hatchback. I will post pics of the experience.
 
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#40
Well, I'd have to take the car apart to do this...

Hmmm...can you settle for say, a picture of the puck? The Strut mount itself is in the car now currently acting as a spacer - I'm working on some ideas to reuse the old strut mounts that lose their pucks...It's a sad story but I hope to find a happy ending to this - someday...

Green arrow points to Puck number - both being the same - but Green identifies the mounted one.

View attachment 5033
That explains it nicely, thank you, Andy. I couldn't imagine otherwise that they'd separate from the steel plate. Damn.
 


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